Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-8881468-20160114090952/@comment-8881468-20160115112507

It would be nice if you stopped to unwittingly provide arguments for my side of the issue.

Trials and evaluation of a finished product is not research. that is merely reconfirming the research that others have put into it to develop it in the first place. I will give you a German comparison: every new model of a car that wants to be driven on german Roads has to go through the  "TÜV" to get the papers to be allowed to drive on Roads in Germany. The original research and development of that model by the producer is R&D. All actions of the TÜV to certify it, are not.

Do they ever improve on the specs of that product? Do they ever increase the engine output, rate of fire, reliability of the weapon, output, minimization of user hazzards, change of propulsion systems.

Heck every goddamn tank is powered by a combustion engine when they do have access to fusion and plasma technology. if after 10000 years you have no progress, despite being on a constant war footing, which (at least in human history) was always a boost for science, research and production. Think of WW 1 and submarines, ww2 and jet engines and rockets, the developmental planes pre ww 1^and at the end of it, the electric engi9ne on the walter submarines, the difference.

I did not gobble, I mentioned something, and honestly if you do not get the difference, let me spell it out for you.

You transferred w40k issues into w30k, which can be very problematic. I spoecificcally menmtioned a w30k HH book because it mentions the schism in the Priesthood of Mars between conservatism and progressivism and all many of those magos' that are on the progress side are either swooned by Horus or have their research bases destroyed and loose their lives. Meaning that the mechanicum magi that are loyal to terra are conservative and will not change or improve or actually do research that ends up improving the technological capabilities of the Imperium of Mankind.

(Example for that: Helsreach  the Titan Legion does not want the Templars to activate the ordinatus or to disconnect oberon's nova cannon and use it for the defense of a hive, because themagos ordinatus is not in system to activate that machine)

But hey, let me give you an argument as simple as to be so obvious that it is rather amusing that we have not used it.

"Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned."

In all those years that the Imperium existed, they have ever so slowly degraded and not improved on their level of technology. If the Mechanicum was actually about R&D, that would not be the case. They would have improved on the technological level on a broad level, instead they falter. Just take the Tau as an example of the opposite. Aside from  Psyker Based warp travel and av ailability of mass material the technology of the Tau is superior to that of mankind.

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Sidenote: thanks for proving my point again with the mentioning of Power Armour.

Mark VIII Errant Power Armour
Mark VIII Errant Power Armour - Ultramarines Chapter The Mark VIII Errant pattern is an update to the Aquila Mark VII pattern armour, the first suit of new Power Armour produced by the Imperium since the Horus Heresy,''' thus illustrating the extreme stagnation of Mankind's science and technology over the past ten millennia since the fall of Horus and the Ascension of the Emperor. '''

Errant Power Armour section in the Power armour article.

Alas, the Errant Power Armour is a change in design, putting some cables beneath armor and changing the gorget. It offers no increase in protection, power output and the likes. It is also is the first suit pattern developed in 10000 years and there is nothing in it about anyhting but a change of design of details. And as pointed out before, HH changed the structure of the mechanicum, removing progressivism.

But let's do a comparison in the development of power armour with it's corresponding eras:

Age of Strife/Unity Wars:

Thunder Armor: upper torso strength increases power of user

Crusader Pattern: fully enclosed suit of powered armour offering various increases in strength, speed and utility

Great Crusade

Iron Armour: increased durability for specified operations

Maximus Pattern: update of crusader pattern with increased mobility and utility without loss of protection + first helmet to move weith the head

Horus Heresy

Heresy pattern= stopgap and field repairs

Corvus Pattern: improved agility and improved systems, easier fitting and less noise

Aquila pattern= looses the studded should that corvus and heresy pattern have and introduces a different torso design to signify the Imperator.

--> aka it is a corvus or maximus pattern with different design (surface) features and stayed in active sertvice for 10000 years.

M41 : Errant Armour

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As for your sentinel repair: was it codified, dfid it become a technology that was hence used in the imperium?

A machine for everything they could make, you mean like the STC machines that were at the core of every colony in the dark age of technology? ;)

I took the Priest of Mars ecample because they fly around in an Ark Mechanicus that has systems and technology that the mechanicum has no clue about, they do not know how to activate or operate them and are dumbstruck when the Ship actually offers up something that surpasses theirt wildest imaginations.

Your Example of the LemanRuss also only works in my favor. No improvement in 1000 years? yeah tons of R&D..

Or take the Rhino, STC data with variants all from the Height of Mankinds pre old night technology.

Or Take the Fury, which weas a GC and HH design still used in w40k

you bring up spaceships, okay let'S go there

The Chaos Repulsive-class Grand Cruiser was a precursor to the Battlecruisers which are now more prevalent in most Imperial fleets. Almost rivaling true Battleships in its ability to withstand damage and lay down a barrage of fire,''' the Grand Cruiser fell out of favour when the means for constructing sufficiently powerful plasma engines was lost (more recently built engines are incapable of attaining a useful combat speed for such a large vessel). '''

The Desolator-class Battleship is an ancient design of Imperial Battleship that dates back to the very founding of the Imperium of Man in the 30th Millennium. '''It utilises technology long lost to the Adeptus Mechanicus in the 41st Millennium. '''None of these formidable vessels now remain in Imperial service, and all now serve the Forces of Chaos.

The Chaos Murder-class Cruiser was once the mainstay of the Imperial Navy's Battlefleet Obscurus between the 33rd and 37th Millennia before being replaced by the more advanced Lunar-class Cruisers. (Problem being that the Lunar Design dates back to the Dawn of the Imperium as per Lunar Class page)

The Slaughter-class Cruiser utilises a special plasma drive design called the Scartix Engine Coil. This advanced pattern of nuclear fusion-based plasma propulsion provides considerably more thrust than any other comparably-sized Plasma Drive. Scartix Coils are rugged and reliable, although complex and time-consuming to repair. The design for the Scartix Coil resided in the data-vaults of the Sethelan Forge World until 126.M34, when it was destroyed by a surprise attack from the Slaughter-class Cruiser Dutiful (later renamed the Soulless).

Just as some examples ;)