Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-4851119-20140118095944/@comment-6078851-20140126160035

that's exactly the point i was making - orks: savage and undisciplined, thunder warriors: savage but disciplined. savagery is not a question of intellect - some of the most savage serial/mass murderers in our history have been exceptionally intelligent.

orks are unable to maintain any form of discipline not because of their, relatively, low intellect, but because it's in their genes to fight - everything and everyone. ogryns are argueably even dumber than orks, and while they can be every bit as savage they can be disciplined. thunder warriors may be less disciplined, and more savage, than astartes but they were an elite army under the direction of emps so they had to have had considerable discipline - the unification of terra couldn't have happened otherwise.