Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-25618639-20141119150740/@comment-86.190.171.142-20141230183450

 Law enforcement agencies are part of civilisation, so their violence is just as part of any coversation as that of   the general citizen. It could be said more so as the use of force by a enforcement organisation – be that miliatry or police et al -   is seen as a expression of the state of the culture.

 Self defence is still violence and if any civilisation was violence free, it would be needless. It is a basic fact that all kinds of life form from dolphin to monkeys fight, to survive or in some cases control, even bully... We as humans are not especially better or worse than them as such.

 The Imperium does have a aggressive empire building policy but when they view all other life in the galaxy as hostile in some manner (not without good reason generally too), then it could easily be seen that they are in fact engauging in a form of self defence. This is supported by the idea that lots of Imperials see the aliens as squatters in humanities galaxy.

 Of course we’ve also seen that this is also not a truely dogmatic doctrine as the Imperium enguages in alliances with the Eldar as and when needed and trade with the Tau in limited forms. Though this was repressed somewhat but then that makes sense to do so.

 With regards to a ‘truely civilised civilisation’ not conducting in anything but unregulated violence then you have just created a oxymoron. How can violence be anything but un regulated really under your thought process. War is as essential, if horrific, element of life as   a boxing match to effectively ‘let off steam’ or take pleasure in people fighting...that doesn’t sound very civilised to me ;) . You seem to suggest that a oxymoron ‘s existence makes the defuncked but without Military Intelligence (A oxymoron) then our Military wouldn’t be able to function as well, which means that our liberal (by many standards) civilisation continue to function.

 I beleive war is as useful to life as boxing as if we were invaded (self-defence) then that is all well and good but if we sent troops to stop ISIS say, that would be warfare, but to prevent a organisation from hurting innocents. Protection of those who can not help themselves is a noble thing...a virtue of a civilised culture. The Imperium has defended other humans and ‘Acceptable’ Aliens when needed.

 You are strickly wrong however about the bit -

 “the other problem i have with 'civilisation' is that those within their own civilisation automatically believe that theirs is right, due to cultural upbringing, social inertia and propoganda, which in turn fosters a sense of superiority, which allows them to commit atrocities on others as a means of 'curing' their ignorance.”

Since the dawn of time we have had dissent, sometimes using resistence both passive and active to change the prevailing ideas. These are often voices of dissent from internal sources as not... Suffurage, Mental Health provision, Homosexual/Ethnic rights etc In the imperium, not all worlds are overly oppressive, some are actually fairly relaxed and tolerant. The Inquistor books show some of this. Subjective points of view are neccessary as they mean emotion is involved which is can be a good thing. It’s this sunjectivity which allows someone to run into a burning building to save another or violently rob someone in the street. There is always a shift of values, both internal and external influcences push this and that is right too, as otherwise we stagnate. That is a issue with the Imperium as they are somewhat stagnated, though not as backward as some like to make out.

I’d also disagree that we haven’t learnt from a races life time of change and violence. Our learning has limited the use of torture on prisoners, has band certain weapons types, has allowed organisations like the United Nations to monitor conditions during conflicts or even the likes of Amnisity International. You seem to decry regulated warfare as a oxymoron, maybe, but we have learn to have the Geneva Convention to limit harm and support more ‘ethical’ conflict, as conflict WILL happen regardless. We see the Imperium use ethics too, but the ‘Guard and ‘Marines. I’d again point out that when YOUR actions to defend mean the lives of millions, billions or trillions then a few dead to save those is regrettable but defencible. The Inquistors fought each other over the merits of stripping worlds to slow the Hive Fleets... that sounds like a conscious to me.

No civiliasation is ideal but I think the Imperial does overall try, it does have some crazy types though but we all do. They are better than the communist Tau I feel, as I like to have a say in my career path. They are friendiler than the Chaos, Tryanids or such. Everywhere has bad people, but those are bad players in a neutral game of life, don’t turn your back on a team beacuse of a few bad apples.

I think, from the literature regarding Oll Parson and John Gramanacus (Spelling) plus that stuff referring to Vulkan been a Immortal like daddybear, that the Emperor is indeed a immortal. OP mentions speaking to Emps in Germany (i think) in the deep past and then it mentions they are alike.

Long live the Emperor! :P