Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-27642965-20160211003725/@comment-4851119-20160922174507

The supernova ship durability would literally turn any shipboard weapon in WH40k useless. Kilotons or gigatons, Macrocannons would have about as much effect on a starship as a flea bite on an elephant, and Nova Cannons would do nothing more than scorch dirt off the hull. So you recognise that it breaks the setting's internal coherence. Now I wonder if you'll see that teraton Star Wars ships do the same.

Want some physical evidence? Here's the opening scene from A New Hope (skip to 3:40). There's rebel soldiers dropping left and right. Once again: plot armour. They fire quite accurately in any situation that doesn't involve plot figures. Especially considering the fact that many of them are Clone Troopers, which have always proven to be skilled marksmen. I repeat myself: "plot armour" or "plot-induced stupidity" is not an argument. And congrats, you've found one source that's contradicted by almost every other display of Stormtrooper marksmanship.

E-11 power packs last for several hundreds of shots before running out, and can be found in large supply. Much like a lasgun power cell then, except I've seen no evidence that it can be recharged by leaving it out on a hot day. And dodging a blaster bolt is still going to be a pain in the bum, friend. Difficult to dodge at short range, yes. Its maximum effective range will be shorter than a lasgun's.

On top of that, with the way Lasguns work, even Stormtrooper armour, which can only stop one or two blaster bolts, could easily protect you. I can't seem to find any quotes on lasgun power right now so I'll give you this for now.

How is that not helping my case, exactly? Because you're pointing out that the most skilled and experienced Force users are still in no way comparable to Space Marines, save for perhaps Jedi/Sith combat precog (which is evidently not 100% reliable because they can still be threatened by non-Force users)

When Jedi start using their powers in a way that doesn't just look good on screen, that's when they can defeat Space Marines. Now, seeing as this matchup wouldn't be film material, they most probably use their abilities in the most effective manner available, which in this case is crushing the bodies of the Astartes inside of their power armour. That's not how it works. They get the capabilities and competence they show on screen or on page. Actually show me a canon source of Force Users crushing enemies inside their armour or don't make the claim that they can.

Seeing as you don't appear to be quite familiar with Star Wars at all Big words from someone who's probably using the damned Incredible Cross Sections as a source given their preferred firepower calcs. You know that book was written by a fanboy who specifically wanted to win these sorts of debates, and did the Star Wars fandom a great disservice by discarding respect for the setting's internal coherency in favour of biggatons?

I'll explain to you that these missiles are capable of knocking out a Star Destroyer in two or three hits. When taking into account that a Star Destroyer's shield generators can withstand large amounts of Heavy Turbolaser fire, I shouldn't need to explain to you what destructive effects they could bring. Hell, considering the power output their explosions would have, they might even be better at destroying planets than Cyclonic Torpedoes are. How fast do these missiles accelerate? What's their maximum velocity?

A couple of dozens, each. Citation please? I'm familiar with Eclipse and Eclipse II but not any further ships of that class, and I've never seen any actual numbers for the Sovereigns. What's your source for there being a few dozen of each?

You can't outrun a tractor beam. You can if the projector can't actually track you and given that it was designed to target Star Wars ships I doubt it'll be able to aim at 40k strikecraft or missiles. With the missile cluster now only a hundred kilometres and scant seconds away, the Bellerophon activated its final anti-ordnance defences, the logic engines feeding targeting co-ordinates and firing solutions through to these last-ditch automated defences. A gridwork of multilaser turrets, autocannon batteries, plasma throwers and flechette launchers studded the outer hull of the Bellerophon and these activated now, throwing out a short-lived but concentrated curtain of firepower between the vessel and the missile wave. -Execution Hour Unfortunately this quote doesn't specify how large the missile salvo is or how many of those shots were executed but the fact that the PD guns are mentioned at all indicates that they at least had a chance of intercepting missiles moving at some tens of kilometres per second (this also fits well with the Guderian calcs which suggested torpedoes at 56km/s). And that's a very low showing too, because I'm not feeling cruel enough to break into the relativistic feats right now.

Also, considering how the Death Star is essentially impervious to Turbolaser fire, how exactly are you going to destroy it with weapons that are less powerful? Impervious to sub-kiloton weapons with range shorter than mid 20th-century wet-navy vessels? Not impressed.

Vitiate could sap an entire planet of all life. Needless to say, he couldn't look at the other side of the planet while he was doing so, yet he still managed to sap that part too. Vitiate isn't Vader.

Nearly 25000 Imperial-I Star Destroyers alone. Seeing as Vindicators are far more common than the Imperial-I, that number can be easily be doubled or even tripled for them. There's no concrete numbers outside the Imperial-I, but eventually there were so many Imperial-IIs that they could replace many of the Imperial-Is, so I'd say there are about two-thirds as many of those as there are Imperial-Is. Venators are old ships from back in the days of the Republic, but of course many of those are lost. Yet, they were the mainstay starship of the Republic Navy, and the Republic Navy had control over several hundreds of thousands of ships, so I'd say there are about 10000 of those left. The remaining ones are less common ships, I'd estimate 1000-2000 for each.

I cba to write out the entire thing for you, but here's someone who already did. And oh hey, look at that, I was actually underestimating the Turbolasers in both power output and firing speed. That guy's source seems to be Fractalsponge, who explicitly referred to the ICS for his numbers when designing his ships. Here's something to keep in mind: Curtis Saxton's masturbatory fantasies that contradict basically every other source in the franchise are not reliable.