Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-203.134.114.240-20130721023526/@comment-13265279-20130730161810

211.26.90.118 wrote: Neithan02 wrote: has little to do with joy killers, if you try to built up a game in a franchise and not use the facts offered by that franchise. then you could simply leave the franchise alone instead of botching up something.

(as seen with "a wikia contributor" trying to make the IoM not the IoM, by denying them their basic morals and motivations)  ewhat would a fusion of the GE and IoM be, nothing, since the IoM would never accept anything offered by xenos tainted filth. if you dunno the major narratives of an entity then don't speculate about anything that deals with those narratives. if you wanna speculate, have a reasonable basis for those speculations and think "can it actually work?" that was not the case in that thread, you should really learn to think things through before touching the keypad.

second note: game developer's normally try to get a franchise, so they have a feeling for dependencies, relations, a storyline,a background (also known as fluff) and they don't have to develop  and design units,technology, buildings and so on from scratch but have guidelines they can go back to. (not even metioning thayt at elast a portion of the game will be sold), however: disregarding the franchise will only discredit your work.

so let me try to get it into your thick skull one last time. game developer's point of view (and view of many people) "I am in a universe with superhuman badasses, that are iconic to that franchise, they offer everything i want for superhuman badassery(with all the chapters, i have lore and backround for various characters, let alone motivations and storylines, grey knights, wolves, ultramarines, hell If I wanna, I can go deathwatch black shield), so why the freck would I choose a weak, little development, little experience and so on Imperial Guardsman for my story, a guy that is too weak for mid tier enemies, who cannot keep up with them, who gives little room for customization and whatnot.

"Some more known than others. And i bet many people would think it to be badass shooting off the head of a hormagaunt with a shotgun or strangling a cultist before cutting hes head off with a blade before moving on to find more."

to use your argument: people would think it to be badass to cut off the head of an ork nob or chaos space marine with a power- or chainblade or strangle an Eldar seer or going all silent killer mode as scout marine wreaking havoc behind enemy lines.be a badass versus the tallest and meanest of the enemy, not their cannon fodder, that motivates players.

"What is so hard to make out of that without thinking through every possible way for the enemy to kill one or the rest of the squad. Underestimating the skill and durability of individuals would no fun out of any heroic inspiring characters in the Imperial Guard."

practiccally a storytellign weakness, since this way, all you will see your squad as is somehting in the line of Star Trek Original Series "Red Shirts" you will merely see all of them as replaceable, which also means that storytellingwise you don't give a damn about your squad and may run into problems when the specialist troopers get taken out, the simply get no unique trait/have little time to develop those, thus you loose very important story devices, if not compassion and "guard feeling of the unit" you merely wanna go in with 50 sacrificial lambs.

and sidenote: such storytelling does not create "heroic and inspiring characters" but merely shows that all those guys are merely the benefactors of statistics.

their equipemnt (even that of the more advanced stormtroopers) is not really protective ( carapace works vs small arms, not more)

you wanna go for the inspiring characters, you find them where, at command lvl-> strategy game, as vehicle leaders (see all the supplements for the different aces) -> why not go into a simulation of those, instead you seem to be too concentrated on the idea of shooters, whcih make little sense with the guard due to the composition of the guard and the lore.

you wanna go into "the saboteur", then bring the environment, bring the cars, bring the story, bring the areas and whatnot, bring the backround that the player gets immersed in and can identify with. aka: Bring hope to France with the changing of colour and wrestling control over districts form your enemy. did you really understand that game? you are made to act for those around you, you are made to act to stop things like on street shootings and so on. positive motivation ftw.

you really think that that would be Imperial guard in the IoM, and not the Officio Sabatorum that works in this way to influence people/interact with them at this lvl/task/story.

by the way you seem to be kind of foolish to me, trying to compare ww2 with warhammer 40k, or using character traits of real people is not using real people but merely interpretations. only because I get some stereotypes to get a bit more connection/depth, does not mean that it changes the roles.

take alexander the great, a delusional paranoid 30 year old drunk on glory, incapable of ruling his domain.

and if you wanna compare a ww2 situation to w40k, thatr does not work, a school metaphor is more suiting, seeing cultists as elementary school, average guardsmen as middle schoolers, csm as college boys and demons on a lvl higher than that. Go look at Firewarrior, and then come back about the IG. Was it a medicore game? Yes, but it has its fun moments as well. Did it broke cannon fluff? Yes, who knew a single Firewarrior could solo an entire Chaos Legion. But did anybody complain about it? Mabye, mabye not, but the majority dosen't seem to give a blam since it was the first (I think) WH40K game that was in for the sixth generation console.

Now go look at Spacemarine, who knew a single Ultrasmurf could solo an entire Ork WAAAAAGH and an entire Chaos Warband equipped with a demon prince all by himself. Did it broke a little bit of fluff? Yes it did. But did anybody b*tch and moan about status quote plot armor? No, because who cares about serious fluff change so ling as the campaign is fun.

Neithan02 you must know that this is WH40K not Star Wars, consistency is all over the place. We have given examples of Spacemarines being killed by a pointy stick, and we have cases of a single IG flashlights vapourising boulders. Compared to other books such as those created by Matt Ward, an IG game centred around a high ranking Imperial Gaurd general commanding his troops Battlefield style is the least fluff damaging espects of WH40K.

Although I agree that Krisstofer 2150 can be a bit childish, he dose have a point. You could have an IG campaign that could be centred around the heroic and selfless sacrifice, while you an IG General is forced to sent into the front lines and command troops due to plot device.

Calling the IG as "crappy cannon fodder" is at best distasteful, as someone who loves the backstory of the IG, they are not and I mean not crappy. Sure they have cardboard armor and flashlights, but the things that some of them do is far more badass then a Spacemarine. Furthermore if they really were crappy as you said, then the IoM would have fallen in less then 5 minutes, but obviously this is not the case. Almost every IG is proparly trained in some form of martial arts, most of them definatley know how to aim and shoot.Even eith number, individually they are not crappy.

And again read the OP, they are fighting Tau, before you go and rant about why IG is a crappy race to play individually. I might advice you that throughout the campaign, IG and Spacemarine forces are continuing to be destroyed and forced back by the Tau. And that the main goal throughout the campaign is to try and save the civilians and the Titan, while your man are forced to make sacrifices.

And I did read about the IoM and GE alliance thread, and aparently I was dissapointed of where it went, it was meant to be a ROB tech-share with fluff out of the way. But aparently the fun was taken out, if Spacebattles.com could do it without rampant fanboy rage about fluff, then I am pretty sure that this forum should do the same to. Thank you! Finally someone who understands me and the fluff.

And yea i have been known to become a bit childish when desperat to show/prove my point and especialy when dragged that far. And i can be a bit bad at explaining my points and views, but you just got all of what i was trying to explain to him in one word "consistency" which i was trying to make him understand when it comes to the Imperial Guard and a game. As you said it's all over the place.

And in the end it was just shown that Neithan02 doesn't even like the Imperial Guard, he just sees right through the fluff and sees only the part about them all basicly dying with cardboard armour and flashlights, nothing more nothing less. Lack of depth.