Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-203.134.114.240-20130721023526/@comment-211.26.90.118-20130801132626

Neithan02 wrote: you are never in the mood to argue since you actually don't bring up arguments. thanks for showing me that you actually did not follow this thread by the way.

to again quote the carapace armour article

"Carapace Armour is stronger and thicker than the Flak Armour used by the common soldiers of the Imperial Guard and various Planetary Defence Forces and it provides the wearer a much higher chance of surviving a direct impact with standard small-arms rounds (though it does little to protect against stronger weapons)."

to quote the death korps grenadier's page

" Hellguns require a lot of maintenance, and have a reputation as being unreliable in the field. Without proper maintenance, the weapon's rate of fire will start to drop off. Hellguns are not well liked by Grenadiers, as most prefer the standard and far more reliable Type XIV Lasgun, but regulations require Grenadiers to carry them, and the weapon's additional impact and damage is seen as compensation for all of its faults."

human lifespan vs scout marines aka experience and training.. do the trainers in the schola progenium have centuries of experience? let me make this short: nope

do the scout marines go through many campaigns and constant training for years, if not decades before they become full fledged marines.. yes.

you really wanna talk about discipline after a training regimen that is far less all encompassing or long, really?

officio sabatorum/assasinorum operatives being trained to work behind enemy lines specificcally and also to do terrorist campaigns, both a definite yes.

by the way, contaga sub sector campaign, harakoni warhawks, aka drop trooper regiments are basiccally what is used to buy the time ;)

to quote the article of that campaign:

"Rauth gave the Lord General his leave, but warned him not to delay the assault out of excessive care for the lives of his men. Its timing had to remain as previously determined."

"The spearhead of the Imperial Guard assault against Shardenus Prime would be carried out by the 32nd Harakoni Warhawks. They were honoured with the first strike of the glorious campaign against Shardenus Prime, carrying the fight to the heretical enemy. These elite troops were to drop behind the walls of the hive city from their Valkyrie assault carriers by Grav-Chute, break the walls and create a breach for the other Imperial Guard regiments to come through. Such work was extremely dangerous and many of the Warhawks would not return. But as seasoned veterans, an elite amongst Guard regiments, the Imperial command's trust was placed in the Warhawks' capable hands."

to quote the harakoni warhawks page:

"32nd Harakoni Regiment - Two battalions of the 32nd Harakoni deployed in support of the Imperial campaign on the world of Shardenus during the Purge of Contqual Sub-Sector. They were granted the honour of leading the Imperial Guard assault on the primary Hive City of Shardenus Prime as described above. During the subsequent fighting, the 32nd Harakoni died to a man.!

aka: you willingly sent off a regiment of your best veterans to death in a mass assault with little cover  what did you say about being not expendable?

to quote the death korps grenadiers article (aka death korps stormtroopers)

"Casualty rates amongst Grenadiers are very high, and although service in the heavy infantry is regarded as a privilege, it is also seen as a duty. A Krieg soldier appointed to a Grenadier squad cannot refuse the honour, and adopts the skull facemask as a symbol of acceptance of his fate. Statistically, eight out of ten Grenadiers are killed in action."

but hey, let's look at the standard loadout of a scout marine

powerknife + bolt pistol as secondaries

sniper rifles, bolters, shotguns (remember, all more effective than las weapons) tactical and sniping squads always 1 heavy bolter

assault squads don't need comparing, imp guard is pretty bad in melee

we both know sms wouold be better for the job, same goes for the officio in thanks to being specificcally trained for such missions, in comparison to imp guard material.

(yeah you get the imp guard guys doing that instead of the trained saboteurs and killers) you basiccally want the imp guard do what they are not best at wheny ou already have much better tools for the task, sorry that is somethign that no commander would do (tau do not tend to put that many ethereals or commanders on the frontlines of a planet/engagement zone, this minimizes also the need for saboteurs/killers and as such you tend to somewhat prefer the specialists.

you seem to forget the basis of my criticism(scroll up), which is actually the bad suiting development- and storywise of the imperial guard as protagonists of a shooter type game, because of their tasks, equipment, human material and tactics. (aside from the poor choice of presentation since imp guard sinlge player would not even see his contribution in bringing down a mid tier enemy, since you already need many guardsmen to achieve such things. So if you were to create a plot for a WH40K game, how would you implement the Imperial guard as Protagonistic without turning them into Cannonfodder?