Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-25618639-20141119150740/@comment-6078851-20141231152006

@zixis, i havn't read vulkan lives yet so i'll accept that it's lore but could you give some context on exactly when/how it's mentioned that emps is a perpetual, or is it simply the opinion of a character that thinks emps is a perpetual? and for all emps' arrogance and occasional idiocy, he wasn't a moron, and if dying after the fight with horus would've caused the partial collapse of the imperium then he would've done so as he would revive within a day - see vulkan's page, after decapitation he was alive again the next day - and if emps was dead he wouldn't be distracted by powering the astronomican and would be up and at 'em the next day and any collateral caused by his absence would be rectified within a few years/decades. plus, i'm pretty sure emps doesn't put any actual effort into the astronomican, it simply reflects his psychic might. so far the only the only thing that has any validity regarding emps' perpetualness is your statement about the vulkan lives novel mentioning it, and context would be appreciated.

regarding the 'civilisation' thing, i don't refer to specifics but generalities. i don't disagree with many of the points you mention, yes societies have progressed, yes there have always been voices of opposition, and standards of ethical values continue to rise, but untill the human race can stop visiting horrific actions upon itself in the name of personal beliefs or making money, or from simple tyrannical insanity/megalomaniacal narssisism, we will never be truly civilised. people believe that the human race is somehow special and more important than other forms of life (and other humans) thereby elevating ourselves above 'the animal kingdom', but we continue to try and justify and rationalise the violence we perpetrate, mostly ignorant of the fact that violence is a part of our dna, and we need an outlet (which is what i refer to with regulated violence between consenting adults), but unregulated violence keeps us firmly mired within the animal kingdom, and therefore keeps us uncivilised.

okay, sorry again for deviation but i'm definitely stopping my part of this off-topic discussion as i really like this kind of discussion and could go on for some time.