Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-24405075-20150318130307/@comment-8881468-20150325081343

The Argument ius rather 2sided there. Ultramarines did not need any more troops to cancel out shortcomings and had a supply train in place, why would those that had the most stable recruitment need boosting more when other legions were far less strong....

The Warrior Lodge has nothing to do with the Legion, it is actually only a pool of dissenters that then wanted to make decisions for their Primarch and honestly, looking at how they tried to get  the coorparation of other legionaries in command functions or the point that they hid all their proceedings from the common legionary simply means that the lodge members did not trust other scars or their Khan.

Despite his prowess and the regard he had by his peers, he never saw himself as a White Scar, he saw himself as a Lunar Wolf.

A title is no suffix in this instance, it actually hardly ever is.

The output of several forge worlds was working to outfit the armies of the Imperium, would you not agree that material was produced that might not have been used because of a lack of manpower (as we see in f.e. the Emperor's Children) or as with the dreadnoughts of the Scars, were never used. The Iron Hands and Salamanders had craftsmanship and technology as central aspects of their Legion culture, same goes for the Iron Warriors. If we look at the post Isstvaan Raven Guard, one of their least problems was supplying the individual astartes with equipment, the more complex patterns of tanks were the problem, the rest could be provided locally and in rather short time.. Heck, if we look at the world Eaters, they made sure a whole Forge World supplies only them.

Most Successful were also not the Ultramarines but the Lunar Wolves, their longest history of activity and victories/honour.

Next: Each Legion had ships to house tens of thousands of legionaries and at least one home planet (aside from World Eaters), if we look at Descent of Angels or Fallen Angels, Imperial Technology took few months to built facilities for tens of thousands, if not more, to be trained and prepared for war.

But meh, let us first look at your basic reading skills. and let me quote from Scars, you simply take Tamu foir Haren and you simply do not read thoroughly...

"‘Your time here is complete,’ he said. ‘Are you prepared to serve?’ ‘I am.’ The words made Haren swell with pride. The first stage – the selection, the physical conditioning – was over. He felt strong. His lean, immature limbs had hardened, his chest had broadened. More would come – the gene-therapy, the psycho-conditioning, and then, finally, the implants that would make him one with the Legion."

-->Haren is the Terran, that quote is right before he is reassigned, he has not received any gene-therapy or organs by that point.

a little later in that same conversation:

"Is there no alternative? No other way? I can re-take the tests! Is this even permitted? I’ve absorbed the doctrine, the training, the methods..."

--> You will adjust

--> This only means that a certain degree of centralisation happens prior to the Legions actually taking over. They do train recruits form terra in a certain way based on the first choosing processes for the Legions, however each Legion still has their own tactics and modus operandi and many simply did not really take Terran Recruits anymore/ it did not matter to them. (Word Bearers, World Eaters,Thousand Sons,Raven Guard,Space Wolves) and so on...

"Tamu narrowed his eyes. He was a year away from receiving his occulobe implants, after which he knew his eyesight would rival that of the berkuts, the hunting raptors that circled the high airs. Of all the changes, he yearned for that one the most. He yearned for the day when he would gaze out across the empty land and see each blade of grass picked out sharply, like a frond of steel. As for now, I am half-finished, he thought. Half-boy, half-man. Half-man, half-god. Everything is incomplete." --> Tamu is the Chogorian Aspirant

The Basic Terran outset of a Legion was 5% initiates of Terra for a 10000-11000 strong troop ( See Space Marine Legions article, '"Generic Space Marine Legion order of Battle")

As for Ultramarines swelling in size: here is the ONLY Canno Source on it: The First Heretic

"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’ ‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain. ‘Some are. This one is not.’ ‘But the Eleventh Legion—’ ‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’ Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’ Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing. ‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’ ‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain. ‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’ Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again.

You also seem to forget that that Instance would only be an argument for a relatively small number of people and not for a reassignment of hundreds of not thousands of aspirants, as those would have absorbed doctrine and so on. Guilliman himself speaks about the legion doctrines being very different and henc eproblems in forming them into one fioghting force (which is his motivation to write the odex Astartes)

Unremembered Empire Chapter 17

"They were a resource of great potential, and their resolve and determination, having been witnesses to treason and atrocity, was beyond doubt. A way had not yet been found, however, to resolve them into one force. Guilliman had begun to find duties for some, as suited their specialisms, and it was, of course, straightforward to place Iron Hands with Iron Hands and Raven Guard with Raven Guard. But to alloy them more permanently threw up problems of differences in Legion practices and methods, of motivations and loyalties, of intentions and desires. Would the flesh-spare leaders of the Iron Hands form a command backbone to a force of survivors? Would the Raven Guard or the Salamanders be content to follow that? Could command be shared? Could orthodoxies be matched? Could the survivors be inducted as additional squads to the Ultramarines or the Dark Angels? As things stood, the Shattered Legions were hard to wield as one force. In an emergency, such as the one that presently hung like a shroud across Macragge, they could not be deployed with unified effect as could the Ultramarines or the Dark Angels

The question of it had vexed Guilliman. Euten had seen him struggling to resolve the issue many times in the previous few days. ''‘The individual character and characteristics of the Legions is what invests them with their strengths, and makes them wonders,’ he had said to her. ‘The idiosyncrasies of composition and method are precisely why there are eighteen Legions, rather than one Legion eighteen times the size. But it is a weakness too, a mortal flaw, when it comes to forging them together as one. It makes one long for a formal, martial codification that would burnish away the rough edges, clean out the differences, and provide for a perfect, easy fit.’''

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