User talk:Shas'o'Kais

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Warhammer 40k! Thanks for your edit to the User:Shas'o'Kais page.

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Montonius (Talk) 08:09, August 25, 2011

Suggestions
I will be carrying out each of your suggestions, thank you for the recommendations. The normal variant picture of theTiger Shark on the A-X-10 page is there for a reason, to show the difference between the variants which is not obvious without it, as the picture captions indicate. I will also be using the normal variant picture on the new standard variant Tiger Shark page which I will produce at some point in the future when the Wiki focuses its energies on the Tau. We go race by race at this stage of the Wiki's evolution and we are not focused on producing Tau material right now, save for a page here or there as they come up or as Tau-friendly editors like yourself choose to contribute. Thanks. Montonius 07:44, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Edits
I apologise for missing the small change to the page numbers. Some of your small changes can make certain sentences ungrammatical and must sometimes be reverted. I will be sure to be more careful about keeping any and all the improvements you make. Montonius (talk) 07:40, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Shas&#39;o&#39;Kais (talk) 08:09, January 16, 2013 (UTC)

Great Job on the XV8
Wonderful job on the XV8 Battlesuit page, Shas'o. That is the way to do a vehicle page! My only suggestion would be to do a quick check of the Lexicanum's page on the same subject to see if any information or sources they have were missed, but you did such an excellent job on the research I would be surprised. But you should check for every page you do just in case. Kudos to you! Keep it up. Montonius (talk) 04:58, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I did check the Lexicanum page earlier and the sources were the same as the old page (inadequate in other words). I would add more information from the older White Dwarfs too but I don't have access to them. Shas&#39;o&#39;Kais (talk) 07:48, January 17, 2013 (UTC)

OK, cool. Yeah, I'm sorry about the White Dwarfs, I know you've been eager for them, but Algrim's computer died and he lost his entire library. He is trying to reconstitute it at the moment but it may be a while before he can add any new material or do any research. I'll keep you posted if I hear anything more about it. Montonius (talk) 05:10, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, one more thing. Under this talk system, you have to reply to the Talk page of the person who sent you the message. it's not like the other system; if you just reply here to a message I send, I won't know you have replied unless you put the message on my page. Thanks. Montonius (talk) 05:11, January 18, 2013 (UTC)

No, sorry, we'll be staying with this Talk System. Montonius (talk) 00:29, January 19, 2013 (UTC)

Artillery
Shas'o, remember, you can create a new category that broad, but you are now responsible for making sure every page created on the wiki or created in the future is added to it. Generally, before you create a new category you really need to ask for an Admin's opinion to avoid a potential problem or wasted work. In this case, you seem to have added most or all of the necessary pages, but since you have set the page's definition so broad, you now need to go through all the xenos races and add their artillery pieces to the category where they fit. It's a pain, but you seem to have made a good start, so go for it. Montonius (talk) 03:56, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

I actually added the pages to the category quite a while ago (several months), but just got round to making an actual page for it. I think I have added every page on the wiki that describes artillery, as the xenos races don't appear to have many. I really don't mind adding categories as they are one of the easiest edits to make. In fact, if there are any categories that you want me to create, I'll happily do it for you.

Shas&#39;o&#39;Kais (talk) 04:47, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

If I think of any, you'll be the first to know. If I see any other pages that belong to the Artillery category I'll add them or call them to your attention. Also, remember, I do not know that you have sent me a message if you reply to your own Talk page. Montonius (talk) 05:09, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Aircraft
OK I'll check it, but I'm sure you did fine. That category (aircraft) has been used for a while and like a lot of them, we never bothered to fully create the page. It's a little irritating that once you create a category you have to essentially create it twice by then creating the page. I don't think we need an anti-aircraft category, though I am curious, how many pages do you think would be placed within it? Montonius (talk) 22:32, January 23, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I thought. probably be better once we have all those pages in place. Montonius (talk) 05:23, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

Honours and Moderations
Shas'o, in recent months I have been very impressed with both your continuing growth as a content creator and your willingess to step up and enforce our wiki's high quality standards even when you were not required to do so. As we have grown much more complementary in our work together, I feel that you have become the type of editor this wiki needs if it is to continue to grow and prosper, particularly as the time approaches to begin upgrading our xenos pages. I am in need of strong editors who understand our stringent formatting standards, are willing to hold others to them, and who have shown the increasing skill at research and page creation that you have displayed and have an interest in the Tau and other xenos, as you do.

With this in mind, I believe the time has come to offer you a staff position as a Moderator. This comes with certain basic requirements and formal duties, but more importantly, the promotion will give you the official imprimatur which will simply enhance what you have already been doing of your own free will. What led me to this decision, which you know I never make lightly, was how you treated that unregistered contributor who was just getting into the hobby and wanted help. I felt your actions there represented exactly the kind of leadership we should expect from a staff member of this wiki, and I know the anonymous editor greatly appreciated them. I know that I have been at times difficult to deal with from your perspective, but this is only because I expect all our editors to pursue the same extraordinary level of quality for which this wiki was created.

In recent months, you have risen firmly, determinedly and gracefully to meet those standards, and I have been very appreciative. So, if you would like the position and would like to join the team, let me know, and we will discuss your new duties and I will formally raise you and announce your selection to the other editors and users (a population, which, by the way, has grown rapidly. Just a day ago we hit a new record of individuals who came to the site over a 24-hour period -- 172,000! Your work is seen by a great many people in the community).

Montonius (talk) 04:59, January 24, 2013 (UTC)

You are raised to Moderator status. Please check the Administrators page in the Important Links for a full, formal list of your new duties. In reality, just keep doing what you are doing, though you now can feel free to boss around other, non-staff editors as much as you like -- you are on the staff, after all, and represent the Greater Good. LOL. We need you to check in with me approximately once a week to see if there is anything new you need to be aware of, and now I will start assigning you areas of the wiki to be responsible for. VforVendetta does vehicles, you already have Tau, so for now I'm also making you the Master of Categories. Congratulations, and good luck! Montonius (talk) 07:59, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations Tau Commander
Congradulations on becoming a moderator, you deserve it!

Vforvendetta1 (talk) 00:14, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Tau Commander
I actually don't know, which is the most commonly used form in the literature? Montonius (talk) 02:57, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

OK, let's go with your suggestion. I do believe that is the primary way we have done it in the past, so let's continue. Thanks. Montonius (talk) 10:08, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, Shas'o, if there is a Tau Lexicon name you need to include it in parentheses after the English name in the Notable Tau Commanders section. If there is not a Tau name, just use the English name, but you need both if they do exist in that list. The English name alone will be used if we create a separate page for that character. Nice work on the Tau Commander page by the way. Montonius (talk) 10:36, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Shas'o, the individual links are red-linked because I will create the page or redirect they link to. When I red link something it is usually done for a reason related to something that will be implemented in the future; please leave it in place.

As for the capitals, they present a problem. For consistency's sake, we have been using the Lexicanum nomenclature in this instance so that there is similar nomenclature across both Warhammer 40k wikis. That is the style they chose in most instances, and was the style used here on all preexisting pages dealing with the Tau. I want it maintained so that editors and readers who use both systems do not see differences over nomenclature. Their wiki came first and has set certain nomenclature standards that we adhere to, which is why in most cases we use their page names for similar topics. However, I have seen the titles used with both capitalisations and without them, though the capitalised forms were definitely in the minority. Can you determine first which is canonical, and second, where this information, if you can find it, can be found? I need to see the material and then make a decision. Depending on how I decide, I may need you to fix it across the wiki. Montonius (talk) 13:17, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

LOL, nevermind, I looked it up myself using the Codex. Games Workshop actually uses both forms throughout the Codex:Tau Empire and the Imperial Armour 3, which is why I have seen both used. They are both canonical based on the examples given, though the new Tau Codex may provide more guidance, we will see. For now, we will be using the lower case versions because it is the more prevalent and the one we have already used on all the other pages, and I also think it looks aesthetically better anyway. Montonius (talk) 13:36, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

OK, Shas'o, I made my decision. We're not using the capitalisation for the reasons I stated. I don't care if there is redundancy in pages; it's a networked wiki and people access the information from different points without necessarily going to a page with the other information; having it in two places is fine and we have always done that. When I red link something, it is done for a reason. In this case, I intend to create the page all the Fire Caste ranks will be linked to; if you create something similar, I will redirect each rank to that page. I want it done that way. Do not revert edits I make on a page again unless there is an obvious canonical mistake, like with the Tau fingers (which was funny).

You're a good editor Shas, and getting better all the time, and your pages are a real asset. But on this wiki, Admins are responsible for all final edits and all structural decisions. I make these decisions based on how the wiki will grow months in advance and everything is done with a reason. I think part of the problem is that you may not understand why we have that system. The single most important quality that makes this wiki better in the long-run than the Lexicanum and many others is what I call, for lack of a better word, consistency. Because one person makes all final edits, this wiki has a consistent style, quality (more or less) and tone across its entire, ever-growing breadth. Yes, this means subjectively that it is one person's preferences and style in a lot of places, but the benefits are legion and this is one reason our wiki does not look like the Lexicanum, with its hideous presentation, poor quality and random shifts in style and tone from page to page. I make no apology for our system and I think its benefits (and our rapidly growing popularity) speak for themselves.

However, I know you disagree with some of the decisions I make, particularly concerning your baby, the Tau pages; that is fine, we will simply have to agree to disagree, though I will always explain my reasoning to you, as above. I will accomodate some of the changes you made to the page where it it just one preference over another, like with the removal of the "Greater Good" clause from the intro paragraph. I like it; you don't, so I will let your version stand. But if we are going to work together closely as staff members this cannot happen every single time on every single page you do, and you have to accede to the final decisions I make in most instances, whether you entirely agree with them or not. So tell me, can you work under this structure? Otherwise this will just turn into a war of constant reversions, locked pages and other ridiculousness which I have no patience for and I am sure you don't either. Let's not do something that silly. I don't want to work that way. So let's decide now. Montonius (talk) 03:53, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No problem, buddy, it's already forgotten. Let's just get this bitch rolling! Thanks for being so understanding, and I look forward to your next page. Montonius (talk) 00:41, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

OK, this is the end of this discussion, forever. Both ways are canon, as I said. From now on, you do them with the capitals when using whole names, and without capitals when using the ranks alone. This violates the consistency principle which I told you about, but I'm so bloody sick of this topic that I will accept both ways from now on. That's it, no more capital talk. ;) Montonius (talk) 08:09, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Lex
Based on Alexa data, much less than 100,000, but there is no concrete number and that could be wrong. For obvious reasons, no one releases their exact page views. For instance, they have slightly more Facebook links than we do, but my read of the situation is that their group of loyalists is much more hardcore than ours. We tend to draw the newcomers, they keep the veterans. We are helped by having a higher Google rating for the main page and some of our content pages. Montonius (talk) 03:03, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Style & Formatting
Hey Shas, First of all congrats on the promotion! Welcome to the wonderful world of "never enough hours in the day" and "too much to do, and not time to do it!" If anyone deserves the accolades and the recognition for the continuous standards of excellent posting, editing, mentoring and enforcement of the wiki standards, its you! Great job! Now that I've gotten the formalities out of the way, I just wanted to chime in quickly in regards to the "passionate discussion" between you and Monti over certain views in regards to style and formatting.

I, of all people, can totally appreciate your position in regards to editing based on structural and aesthetic decisions, and I understand Monti has explained his position in regards to why he has asked you to stop reverting his edits based on these decisions. I have to support the Lead Admin on this one. We, as both wiki editors and mods, may not always agree with the choices or decisions of our illustrious leader, and heck, we may feel very strongly one way or the other in regards to his final edits. But ultimately, we have to abide by the will of our Lead Mod's final decision in regards to any edit or changes that he sees fit on enacting on any article. We may not always agree, but everyone is (of course) entitled to their own opinions, and of course you can air your grievances to Montonius at any time.

As you well know, he will always take into account your position, and should he disagree, will let you know in a timely manner, a detailed reason why he does things the way he does. So, in the interest of maintaining a harmonious environment here on the 40K Wiki, I ask of you, please respect Monti's final decisions. You may not agree with it, heck, you don't even have to like it. But ultimately, Monti has the final say, and as a Mod on this wiki we need to respect his decision and support him as fellow Moderators. Not trying to brow beat you or gang up on you. Just wanted to clear the air. Algrim Whitefang (talk)Algrim Whitefang

template
Algrim Whitefang can you show you how to make one. When it's crafted, please place it on my talk page for feedback.

Yes, you can take any code you want from another wikia wiki, though not the Lexicanum.

Montonius (talk) 06:46, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Capitals

Please read the Codex, the capitals are only used when the WHOLE title is NOT used, as in O'Shovas. Otherwise its Shas'o Shovas. The Codex shows these examples on the character names. Montonius (talk) 07:26, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Templates Redux
Ah, crap, showing you how to create a template is really complicated and difficult to do in words, I really need to SHOW you. My suggestion would be to ask Algrim to do it for you, and yeah, I think the Inqusiition symbol would be appropriate for all system templates, unless you can think of a better symbol from the canon for our staff. LOL. Montonius (talk) 07:51, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Categories
That would be helpful, one for each First Founding Legion; then please place all the relvant pages within it, if they exist. Montonius (talk) 10:22, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Please do not add Space Marine Chapter or Legion categories to individuals or places which are not directly connected to that Chapter or Legion. For instance, Alessio Cortes and Rynn's World are NOT included in the Imperial Fists category, though their Chapter would be as a Successor Chapter of the Imperial Fists. Tzo Sahal, however, would be added to the Night Lords category as he is a member of that Legion. The categories are only to be used for direct members and for the confirmed (not suspected) Successor Chapters of that First Founding Legion. Anything else is way too broad and gives the reader the mistaken idea that those individuals are members of that Chapter. Thanks.Montonius (talk) 07:56, February 4, 2013 (UTC)