Board Thread:Warhammer 40k General Discussion/@comment-24405075-20150318130307/@comment-8881468-20150328210725

Please continue the baseless insults, they only weaken your position further, we already have proof that you clearly cannot read but meh ;) let's keep going.

you have shown that you cannot read, you have shown that you merely throw around insults,why would I bother spelling correctly to get basics across to somebhody without manners or basic mental capabilities.

The codex astartes is post heresy and is written during the scouring years and horus heresy years, it did not exist prior to the heresy, in "the unremembered empire" guilliman specificcally states in chapter 17, that there is no uniting martial codification for the legions just yet. The 2 missing legions were expunged from all records in the 960s m 30, the unremembered Empire takes place after the battles in the isstvaan system, after the dark angels engage the nightlords and so on. Guilliman hiumself muses on the need for a combining work of martial structure and culture 30+ years AFTER the missing legions are annihilated. If he had already integrated many neophytes and astartes of the missing legions, the whole issue would not occure to him as new and needed when he meets the remnants of different legions and combines them into an ad hoc fighting force. He would already have gone through that process twice, decades before the Heresy was even a matter, if the missing legions had somehow been added to the ultramarines.

"The individual character and characteristics of the Legions is what invests them with their strengths, and makes them wonders,’ he had said to her. ‘The idiosyncrasies of composition and method are precisely why there are eighteen Legions, rather than one Legion eighteen times the size. But it is a weakness too, a mortal flaw, when it comes to forging them together as one. It makes one long for a formal, martial codification that would burnish away the rough edges, clean out the differences, and provide for a perfect, easy fit.’

I repeat it, so you might get it... The CODEX ASTARTES is not a Legion Era document.

let's do this:

16  the emperor's executioner unleashed on 2 legions that get annihilated, the wolves do not come to not kill.

14: the argument is different: to all ultramarines those of non ultramarian heritage and tactics will stand out. since their primarchs are deacd/ereased from history, why would their followers be allowed to live? why would their followers be allowed into the ultramarines. you have the problem that their genetics do not mix, that their tactics, culture and allegiances are different, those 3 things already lead to unrest/differences and strife.

sidenote: Imagine an Emperor's Children Marine leading World Eaters ( aka ccan you please not spill all that blood and gore over my perfectly shined greaves, thanks), a Salamander leading Iron Hands (aka: auxilia troops.. you mean cannon fodder versus save them humans) or a Raven guard leading Night Lords (hey dudes, you are really silent but honestly, all dem skulls and blood are freaking me out)?

13: The argument is as follows: you got tons of marines that look differetnly in complexion, maybe even functioning organs and so on, amongst several tens of thousands of relatively resembling marines, you will see the block of marines from a different legion standing out, you get visual markers.

by the way, let me quote from "Fulgrim"

''Fabius kept his long white hair, the mirror of the primarch’s, tied in a severe scalp lock, accentuating the sharpness of his features and the coldness of his dark eyes. His movements were curt, their exactness reflecting his intensity and the precision of his methodology.''

or let me quote from "False Gods"

Behind him came a warrior Loken did not recognise, a sallow-skinned Astartes in the armour of an apothecary, with gaunt cheeks and a long mane of hair as white as that of his primarch.

I really wonder where you get this crooked and old GUY argument for an emperor's children Astartes pre taint?

to 12.. what gibberish? Harren was indoctrinated into the Lunar Wolves, that was where his loyalties are and have been, as the book mentions, despite his gene seed and Scars programme, he uses Lunar Wolf Tactics, is more loyal to the Warmaster than either his Primarch or the Emperor and so on. aka: those of another Legion will have other loyalties and that will work against unit cohesion.

11. it merely says that the legion does not exist anymore, that there fortress does not exist anymore and that they have no legacy whatsoever (not even genetic) in imperial records.

to 10: all those that received the tainted gene-seed were tainted and mutated, corax thought that it was his fault for altering the dna they had been given, because of that he did not simply kill them all but accepted them into the ranks as full battle brothers and let them fight until they die, His legion was depleted (post isstvaan) and he still welcomed them as a fighting force but he did not expand the raven guard using that tainted gene-seed, which is another counter argument against keeping the legionaries of another legion. + at the time the 2 legions were expunged, no leigon faced extinction or had trouble getting recruits, no one had turned traitor yet (okay the word bearers were about to but they were still expanding the imperium), no conflict had arisen.

Mankind is pretty strong in their Anti-Mutant stance  and honestly: all Bloodangels suffer from their curses, it is in their genes, it comes to the fore, they either keep it in check, die before it comes out or they fall victim to it, nevertheless... ALL have the mutations of their Gene-seed, just as much as you will not find a Space Wolf without enlarged canines or a white Salamander.

to 9. problem is that those ad hoc foirmations all happen post isstvaan and out of need or even post Heresy/scouring, with the Codex Astartes present and a foundation on which to work, or with institutions in plac e like the deathwatch, that work by combining forces. To remind you again, the missing legions go out decades before the Heresy... ;)

If we look pre Isstvaan or even at the Battle where the Lunar Wolves, Empi Children and so on, fought against the traitors in their midst, the Legion remnants stood apart. The World Eaters still operated as World Eaters, the Lunar Wolvces still as unar Wolves, the Empi Children still as Empi Children, Tarvitz may have been the overall commander but he sure as hell did not mix the different legions into squads or companies or fire teams.

to 8: no stable source for gene-seed, we have several legions that had problems replenishing their ranks prior to meeting their primarch and with their  transgressions having been big enough to validate removal from records, where do their loyalties lie, why would one waste material on such marines whose allegiance and effectiveness is in doubt or who are heavily mutated... purge the unclean ftw.

to 7. it merely says that the missing legions have no individual homes anymore and it means that the Space Wolves were used to censure another Primarch, aka a legion ofught or forced another legion into submission so that a primarch/primarchs could be censured/killed/annihilated. and since all legions see their primarch as basiccally their father, do you doubt them defending their primarch?

to 6. the problkems that come with just repainting the armour: tactics,culture and indoctrination. we are talking about people that have learned to fight ONE way, apply one modus operandi to a situation, to prefer one way of action. The Raven Guard will go for stealth, the Iron Warriors will use siege warfare, the World Eaters will Charge, the Thousand Sons will use their Psykers, the Death Guard will go for their attrition based warfare and so on... if you get Legions fighting outside of their normal style, you get stuff like the Battle of Gate Forty-two for the Raven Guard.. aka: failure.

The next problem: what will you get? if we look at current implantations, it is one piece of foreign tussue into another body. if we take the Astartes gene-seed, we have 2-3 different sources with different properties into the same host body. will you get the  wolf eyes of the Space Wolves or the Black eyes of the Raven Guard, do you get the White Skin of Ultramarines/Bloodangels and so on or do you become black like the Salamanders, will you grow the canines of the Space wolves or not? All Primarch DNA is on the same level.....

5. only shows that the legion is removed/destroyed

4. only shows that the missing legions exist in no form whatsoever.

3 2 1 are only the arguments for

all Primarchs have been found and now 2 are dead. Also if we look at the regard in which primarchs are held by their legion, we know of the loyalties of the marines, we know that they will have definite cultures, that they will have bonded and fought and that twice thjings happoened that could not be ignored and ended in military actions against them.

We only have a timeframe mentioned, the devil is in the detail, the problem is that your base is still only rumor amongst the marines, no fact and that is countered by enough valid canon information.